Is Food Addiction Real?

Today's podcast is called "Is Food Addiction Real"? This is a good question! I've noticed that I can have strong cravings for certain foods, like candy and ice cream, but not others, like spinach and broccoli…

So what is it about candy and ice cream that creates cravings? Is it possible to become addicted to these foods?

Well, the research is beginning to give us some answers, and truthfully I was not surprised to discover that yes, processed foods containing sugar and flour do indeed create a drug-like response in the brain.

Tune in to today's podcast to learn all about it!

Episode Highlights:

1:57 The major components of processed foods that are triggering addiction in our brain are sugar and flour. And if you think about what they are, they're refined and processed white powders that are rapidly absorbed from our stomach and intestines into our bloodstreams. And they produce a hit of dopamine in a part of the brain called the nucleus accumbens.

9:49 'Needing' is actually based in the biochemistry. Here, there's no real conscious decision anymore. You have to have the substance in order to function normally. And this is the nature of addictions to any substance of abuse. It's what happens with nicotine. It's what happens with morphine. It's what happens with cocaine. It's what happens with alcohol. And it happens with food.

26:27 I want you to know that if you struggle with processed food addiction, you are not crazy and you're not alone. But it also means that you need to know your own brain. So if you wanna think about this really carefully, what has been your relationship with sugar or white flour? Do you have a hard time stopping it?

--- Full Raw Transcription Below ---

Dr. Angela Zechmann (00:27):
Hey everyone. And welcome to this week's episode of the podcast and welcome back Marcelle. . Hi, we missed you. We missed you the last two weeks. I was with Dr. Golden for the last two weeks and Marcelle wasn't with us. So it's awesome to have you back. Oh,

Marchelle (00:44):
I'm excited though. To listen to your guys' podcast. I haven't listened to them yet, but

Dr. Angela Zechmann (00:48):
Yeah. Oh, they were, it was really good. It was super good. Okay. So awesome. Yeah. So today I wanted to talk about food addiction and my cat is in the way, just letting you know, in case she meows or something. Okay. . So today I wanted to talk about food addiction. So of course I hope that by now all of our podcast listeners know that when I say food addiction, I'm talking about processed food addiction, right? Most people don't get addicted to steak and spinach. They get addicted to processed foods and think about what are the major components of these processed foods. Think about like, what do you think?

Marchelle (01:41):
I would've to say that I have never met anybody that is addicted to broccoli, but I've met a lot of people that are addicted to donuts, including myself.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (01:48):
Yes . And for me it's cakes and candy and ice cream and that kind of stuff. So it's the major components of processed foods that are triggering addiction in our brain are sugar and flour. And if you think about what they are, they're refined and processed white powders that are rapidly absorbed from our stomach and intestines into our bloodstreams. And they produce a hit of dopamine in a part of the brain called the nucleus accumbens. I don't know where that name came from. Somebody very scientific made that up, who knows Latin. So it's called the nucleus accumbens. And this is where the brain is sensitive to dopamine levels. And so this is why we call it the reward center, because when you get ahead of dopamine, you feel pleasure and reward. And this is the same thing that happens to other drugs of abuse, like cocaine and meth and heroin.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (02:56):
And even nicotine does this too. But caffeine, these caffeine gives you a little head of dopamine as well. But the drugs that are, you know, really abused and people get highly addicted to are typically white powders. They come from natural substances that they, and so think about. So they're coming from natural substances. So like take cocaine, for example, it comes from the cocoa leaf. And so they take the cocoa leaf and they grind it down and they purify it and they turn it into a white powder and then you either snort it or however it is that you get it into your system. I think there's a lot, few different ways to do it. I'm not a cocaine abuser so I don't really know all of this stuff, but but it cut, it gets straight to the brain, like a huge flood of it. And then the brain produces the dopamine hit. So it's, I

Marchelle (03:54):
Have a quick question. Do you think that, because I know like, some people don't use cocaine, some people do, right? Yeah. Do you think that every single person, if they tried cocaine, they would automatically be addicted to it?

Dr. Angela Zechmann (04:06):
No.

Marchelle (04:08):
So some people wouldn't, some people would just like, because I know you've told me that some people are more sensitive to sugar. Like some people are addicted to it and some people aren't, so it's just kind of like your biology.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (04:19):
Yeah. Mm-hmm yeah. Right. So some people get ahead of cocaine and, you know, they get addicted very easily. Some people have cocaine and it doesn't phase them at all. Same thing is true with smoking with nicotine, you know, some people get addicted tos.

Marchelle (04:34):
Yeah. So, so I guess I would say it's not a matter of choice then if you become addicted to these substances, because it's just the way that your brain works, if you become addicted to

Dr. Angela Zechmann (04:45):
It, mm-hmm yes. And there's a lot of research on addiction and addiction medicine that indicates that there is genetics. And then there is also my understanding of this and, and I am not gonna pretend to be an addiction specialist at all, but my understanding is that there is a genetic predisposition, but then there's also some sort of something happens during the development of the brain in the early years, between typically between the ages of five and 10, that cause a trauma to the brain. So oftentimes we'll see people who have a who have an addiction history also have a history of trauma.

Marchelle (05:32):
So yeah. So I guess, yes, I could say.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (05:34):
And I actually

Marchelle (05:34):
Say if, oh, go ahead.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (05:36):
No, I was gonna say actually what I would like to do since you're bringing this up and it's really great points is I'm actually going to be learning more about trauma and how it affects the brain. And I think it might be a good idea for me to see if I can find a trauma specialist to be on our podcast. So yeah. So great, great points. Yeah. So were you gonna say something else?

Marchelle (05:57):
I was just gonna say, so I just want anybody that's listening to, to realize that this isn't a matter of will or choice. I mean, Uhhuh, if you have food addiction, mm-hmm and because I hear it all the time when people come into the clinic and you know, and they're trying and they, and they feel like they're failing and they're like, why, you know, why can't I just do this? What's wrong with me? Am I broken? Yeah. And I just want anybody that's listening to listen to the science of this mm-hmm and realize, you know, that it's, it's not your fault. It's not a matter of your will mm-hmm or your choice that mm-hmm sometimes, you know, it's, it's, it's something a little bit deeper mm-hmm and that if you wanna really be successful in overcoming it, there's a little bit deeper work that you need to do than just to mm-hmm eat vegetables and more protein and mm-hmm and and, and so on. So yeah. Mm-Hmm, we're yes. We'll get into that.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (06:56):
Yeah, exactly. So, so yeah, I think that understanding the science of this can be super, super helpful, which is why I wanted to do this podcast. So, so I want you to think about processed food. Think about, say, for example, a Big Mac or potato chips. They're really delicious. And there's a difference though, between liking it and enjoying it and wanting it and then needing it. Okay. So we need to understand what the difference is between these three, if we wanna understand food addiction. So if you, most of us like fast food and statistics actually show that fast food accounts for 15% of sales of the entire us food industry. So of all of the dollars that people in the United States spend on food, 15% of those dollars go to fast food. So that's an indication that people really, really like this stuff. Okay. It's well over one, because

Marchelle (08:03):
It's only 15%. I thought it would be a lot higher

Dr. Angela Zechmann (08:05):
Actually. Yeah. I think, I think it probably is, but they, they have certain ways of counting these things, but it's well over 100 billion in sales. Okay. Okay. And so I'm talking about fast food restaurants in this case. So I'm not talking about all processed foods here. Okay. So that's a lot of money that Americans are spending on fast food. And so obviously people do love their Big Macs, but liking something is pretty easy to turn on and turn off. So it's not, it, there's not like a lot of brain that thinking that goes into it. Okay. But what about wanting it? This is more like a craving, right? So the brain has already been exposed to the substance and knows that there's gonna be a big hit of pleasure from that substance. So you find yourself sort of anticipating a reward. So you get a craving for something like a big Mac or for, from some chips, because your brain's been exposed to it and it is anticipating the reward.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (09:09):
Okay. So all it takes is just thinking about it. So that's the wanting or the craving. Now I apologize to anyone for causing them to crave something. That's not good for them, but I am trying to make a point here. So and again, this doesn't happen with broccoli and spinach. I could talk about broccoli and spinach all day and nobody would have any cravings because you're not gonna wanna run out at midnight and go get some broccoli. no, I've never done that. Broccoli does not give us an artificial hit of dopamine because broccoli is not an artificial food. okay. So then let's talk about needing what's needing, needing is actually based in the biochemistry. Now here, there's no real conscious decision anymore. You have to have the substance in order to function normally. And this is the nature of addictions to any substance of abuse.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (10:07):
It's what happens with nicotine. It's what happens with morphine. It's what happens with cocaine. It's what happens with alcohol. And it happens with food as Dr. Robert Lustig says in his book Fat Chance, food addiction can happen to anyone and it can happen to you or listener. So is it possible to come to become addicted, to processed food? Is this actually a real thing? That's the question. And I would encourage all of us to get really curious as we're asking that question. I love the word curiosity, because curiosity allows you to look at the facts without judging yourself about them. Okay. So just get really, really curious and ask yourself. So let's talk about what are the, what does the American psychological association, how do they define addiction? Okay. So, and then we can get really curious about whether they're, whether our relationship with processed food falls in that category or not.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (11:17):
Okay. So the APA, the American psychological association defines addiction or substance abuse as a mal adaptive pattern of substance abuse, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress. Okay. Those are important words, clinically significant, impairment or distress. Now, while there's no standardized definition for food addiction. When I go through the seven criteria for substance addiction that make up this definition, I want you our listener to ask themselves if they've ever felt this way about certain foods.

New Speaker (11:55):
The first two criteria are considered physiological criteria, meaning they have to do with the function and chemistry of the body while the rest of the criteria are more like a psychological dependence. Okay. So to be considered addicted to any substance of abuse, one must meet at least three of the seven criteria. Okay. So are you ready? Here are the seven criteria for substance abuse.

New Speaker (12:23):
The first is tolerance, and this is defined as the need for more of the substance to get the same effect or when the same amount of substance produces less effect with continued use.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (12:36):
So the serving of chips or the chocolate chip cookie still generates a dopamine rush, but it becomes less satisfying over time. The more your brain is exposed to the dopamine, the more these dopamine receptors become down regulated. That's a fancy term, which means they're just fewer and fewer of them. And so now it takes more dopamine receptors to ensure that it takes more dopamine, excuse me, to ensure that the few receptors that are there are gonna get occupied in that you'll get a hit. Okay, so you need more chips or more cookies just to get the same level of reward. So ask yourself if you've noticed that the amount of food that you need to feel satisfied has gotten larger over time. That would be one of the first criteria.

New Speaker (13:27):
The second criteria is withdrawal, and this is characterized by physical signs, such as fatigue or headaches and psychological signs such as anxiety or irritability or depression when you try to stop eating the food. So ask yourself if you've ever struggled with any of these symptoms, when you try to stop eating these highly processed artificial foods. Okay. So those are the first two.

New Speaker (13:55):
The third criteria is binging, and this is defined as an escalation of intake using a greater amount of the substance or using it for longer duration than intended. So in animals, this can be measured by an increase and the number of times the animal will go and press a lever to self-administer a drug. So for example, we can watch mice in the lab do this. So or in the case of a human we can watch people continue to eat, or you can watch yourself continue to eat, even after satiety has been achieved. So you're full, but you keep eating. And I notice this happens to me really often, if I'm eating cake or like chocolate chip cookie dough, these are very highly processed foods that are high in reward value because they're mostly sugar and flour and fat.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (14:50):
And I've done some very strange things. When I'm struggling with these foods. For example, I've eaten them in secret where I'll dig untouched pieces of cake out of the trash and eat them. And I was talking with a friend over the weekend. He does not suffer from obesity by the way, but he told me a story about how he was watching a game one night and he was eating a special brand of chips that he really enjoys. And he got full and he noticed he still wanted more. So he actually got up and threw the rest of the bag in the trash. And then he said, it wasn't long before he was digging that bag out of the trash and then polished it off. So that made me feel better because I feel less alone in these sort of strange behaviors. So, you know, there's a lot of shame involved in these types of behaviors because you just can't understand why you feel so compelled to eat like that. And you're like, you feel out of control. So I want all of our listeners to know that if you've ever struggled like this, we get it. And Dr. Lustig writes that many people will consume massive amounts of food, such as an entire sheet cake alone in, in the dark of their kitchen with massive shame,

Marchelle (16:00):
I feel. Okay. So I so wanted to just break in for a second. Yeah. So what, so I'm, so I'm thinking through this for me, like when I, because I, I do this myself where I, first of all, if I'm trying to avoid maybe a feeling which would be mm-hmm, maybe boredom or mm-hmm stress or mm-hmm sadness or, or anger or, or whatever. Right. so I'm trying to avoid that feeling. So mm-hmm even if I, this was after I've already had dinner. Okay. Mm-Hmm so it's, I'm full at this point. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll go into the kitchen and I look around what sounds good to me. Mm-Hmm and then when I find that something like a bag of chips and I eat a little bit of it, then there's a point where you're really super full and you know, that you're full mm-hmm mm-hmm , but you're still eating it for the taste because there's this, there's this part where it's just for the taste, it has nothing to do with my stomach.

Marchelle (16:58):
It has, I don't think at that point it has anything to do with my brain, but I feel like it's just because you wanna keep tasting. Yeah. So I feel like taste like plays a huge part in mm-hmm keeping it going mm-hmm rather than to, to just say, Hey, I'm full. I shouldn't be doing this. You know, I need to stop. Yeah. You, so, so we have this, so we have this, this tasted thing. Yes. Also plays a lot of tricks on us. At least it does me. Mm-Hmm where, like, I'm eating that chocolate cake. I know that it's bad for me. I know that I'm full, but I'm eating it because it tastes good. Mm-Hmm so is it, so is the, so what I'm wondering is let's see if I could phrase this right. Is taste the taste of it is what gives you the dopamine hit?

Dr. Angela Zechmann (17:46):
Yeah, so they're actually very specific receptors in the tongue to to taste sweets. And I wanna say, I think they're called the T1R3 receptors in the taste buds. And these were only just discovered in 2001 just FYI. And they have a direct direct hit to the nucleus Acus in the brain. okay. And they're not just down, they're not just on the taste buds though. They're all the way down the esophagus and into the stomach. And there're even some on the pancreas, which is where it's the organ where we release insulin. So, so, and, and the other thing you need to know is that flour will do the same thing because we have an enzyme in our saliva called amylase that will break flour down into sugar. So that will also stimulate that receptor.

Marchelle (18:43):
I think that applies to alcohol. I think. So you're not also applies to alcohol too. Just, just saying that for everybody who's

Dr. Angela Zechmann (18:48):
Listening to, well, I don't know if alcohol will affect the T1R3 receptor. I don't know that research specifically, but I do know that they have done research on sugar and flour and they do hit that T1R3 receptor, which has a direct hit to the brains dopamine center. So yeah. You're absolutely, you're not crazy. You're absolutely not crazy.

Marchelle (19:10):
Yeah. It's, it's just kind of weird to think about that because I know like when I'm, when I'm eating this bag of chips or what, I mean, for me, it's mostly for me, it's it's sweets chocolate cake. I mean, that's, you know, gets me every time or donuts. Mm-Hmm I know that it, it doesn't even take it hitting my stomach or letting anything digest. It's just, if I can taste it, I mean, I almost could even probably chew it up and spit it out and I would be just as satisfied.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (19:36):
Yeah. So the fourth criteria for substance abuse is a desire or an attempt to cut down or quit. So this is basically what a diet is, right. right. Think about that. That basically a diet means I'm gonna cut down on my intake of these highly processed foods for, so how many

Marchelle (19:56):
I can handle it until I handle it anymore.  

Dr. Angela Zechmann (19:59):
So how many diets have we been on? Think about that? I've been on diets before, where we were allowed a cheat day once a week. And I remember just absolutely living for that cheat date. Like I could not wait until Sunday rolled around and I could just eat whatever I wanted, you know? Right. So, so that's a, that's part of that, that criteria for substance abuse.

New Speaker (20:23):
The fifth criteria is craving or seeking out the substance. And in food addiction, research craving is described as a motivation to seek food. Okay. So a motivation to seek food. Sometimes this will occur because we experience a trigger. For example, seeing a Starbucks sign or a Dairy Queen sign has triggered cravings in me in the past one woman told me that she left her house at 3:00 AM in her bathrobe to head to a convenient store for candy, because she didn't have any at home. And her craving was that strong.

Marchelle (21:00):
And so I've done that a hundred times. Yeah,

Dr. Angela Zechmann (21:02):
I know we do. We do these things. So so again, ask yourself if you've ever done that. Or sometimes what people will do in this day and age is it'll be like the midnight call to Uber eats or door day Ash, or one of those oh

Marchelle (21:19):
My gosh.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (21:20):
To something to be delivered whole

Marchelle (21:22):
New. Yeah. That's

Dr. Angela Zechmann (21:22):
A whole, yeah, that, that brings a whole new level to it. Really? Yeah.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (21:27):
The six criteria is interference with life. So this is interesting. This is defined by important work or social or other life activities being compromised. So if you think about it with food addiction, I think of this in two ways, I think there can be an immediate interference because the cravings are driving you to do things other than what you should be doing. For example, eating instead of sleeping or eating instead of working. And they actually call that procrastinating. Have you heard that before? Procrastinating? Yeah. Or another way to look at interfering with life is you can look at it as struggling with the consequences of the food addiction, such as the lack of a mobility that impairs the quality of life or digestive pain or foggy brain, or just the lack of confidence that comes when you're struggling with this disease of obesity. So couple of different ways to think about how it impairs life.

Marchelle (22:32):
Oh, and that's like the biggest thing that I hear from patients at the clinic is how, because how crappy they feel when they mm-hmm they know that they're eating the wrong foods. Mm-Hmm , they, they don't stop. I mean, and this is me too. I'm talking about myself. Mm-Hmm we don't stop mm-hmm and then we feel totally crappy mm-hmm and then we feel guilty. Mm-Hmm because we feel crappy and we made a bad decision, but yeah, that's, that's one of the, the biggest responses that I hear each month is that people are struggling with, they, the fact that when they, when they're doing really well, and then if they slip or they splurge, they feel really, really afterwards. Mm-Hmm , you know, their knees start to hurt again, or, you know, they, they mostly the bloating or, you know, their stomach aches or headaches mm-hmm mm-hmm . And so yeah, so it really, I'm not even sure of a lot of people even understand that, how, how bad you feel when you do eat like that, because so, so many of us eat like that for so often that we don't even realize that

Dr. Angela Zechmann (23:41):
That that's what's causing it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right.

New Speaker (23:46):
The last criteria of substance abuse is ongoing use despite negative consequences. So what this is defined as is continued use, despite knowledge that use will make the problem worse. So for example, smokers who already have who already have you know, impaired impaired lung function will keep smoking. And in, in this case, the health consequences that are associated with obesity are really severe and wide ranging. And we talked about this with Dr. Golden last, in the last couple of weeks, over 200 distinct diseases are associated with obesity and 14 different cancers are associated with obesity, but we continue to eat these addictive foods. Despite knowing this. Now we can say a lot of people don't know this, but people who, for example, people who have diabetes who know that eating sugar is bad for them, but they still can't stop.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (24:48):
That's a really common problem because they're really struggling with the addiction. Okay. So continued use despite knowledge of negative consequences. So you wanna ask yourself if your relationship with artificial processed foods and drinks meets any of these criteria. And I have to say that answer is an absolute hard yes. For me, in particular. And I'm convinced that yes, there is such a thing as processed food addiction because I experience it. And of course the food industry knows this and they do their best to get us addicted as young as possible. So, as a matter of fact, I don't know if you, if our listeners realize this, if you go look at Simic sensitive baby formula, the first ingredient is high fructose corn syrup. highly addictive drug that we give to babies who seem to have colic and are sensitive. So many of the toddler foods that are out there are highly processed food that train the brain at a very young age to expect a huge reward from food.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (26:03):
Is that not interesting? No, it's scary. It is. It is. So I just want all of our listeners to know that you're not crazy if you find these foods really alluring and there's actually nothing wrong with you other than that, there's biochemistry going on. Right? So if I want you to know that if you struggle with processed food addiction, you are not crazy and you're not alone, but it also means that you need to know your own brain. So if you wanna think about this really carefully, what has been your relationship with sugar or white flour? Do you have a hard time stopping it? Just a little bit? Think about the difference I talked about between liking it and wanting it and needing it. Okay. Ask yourself if you have a hard time stopping it a little bit, ask yourself if you ever, like, if you ever ate sugar in secret as a child, that would be a sign, or if you ever eat in secret now or if you're really struggling.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (27:09):
So I want, I want you to know that I get it and Marcelle gets it. Like we get this. And so, and we wanna help. We're here to help. So your first step is to get more educated about processed food, addiction and plan, what to do to quit. I don't want you to just go on yet another diet and not be successful. I want to help you do it right this time so that you can be successful long term. We've had lots of people joining our Facebook group sugar and flour Buster society telling us, and this is what they say, because we ask, what are you hoping to get out of this group? And they say, I need help getting off sugar. So we're here for you. right. Marcelle. right.

Marchelle (27:57):
Yeah. And, and I know how hard it is because I am right there with everybody.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (28:02):
Yeah. Yeah. So next week I'm going to be holding a four day quit sugar kickoff challenge. This will, this will be four days next week, starting on Monday and going through Thursday. And I'd like to invite you to join us. You don't actually have to quit sugar and flour next week, unless you want to. But what I'm gonna be doing is giving you all the information you need, so that you'll know exactly what to do to be successful. And we'll put a we'll put a link in the show notes to the registration page because you do have to register to be in this challenge and we're gonna have it all done in a very specific Facebook group. So so I want you to, I want everybody to know that there is that there's that resource for you, and for sure, if you haven't already joined sugar and flour busters society on Facebook, join us there. And again, we'll put a link in the show notes for that. So so you, you do have some resources to help you get started. I don't wanna overwhelm you with too much information though, because what happens is you start talking about getting off sugar and the brain kind of goes a little bit nuts, cuz like, wait a minute, what am I gonna do? how am I gonna do this? So like what do you mean? So, okay. Do you have any comments?

Marchelle (29:25):
No, I've just, I mean, I just know how hard this is and, and mm-hmm , I think that it was really important when you said, you know, it doesn't mean you have to do it on Monday. You don't have to be prepared to quit sugar and flour on Monday, but if you register and you get the information, then when you are ready, mm-hmm , then you'll have the tools that it takes to, to help you. Exactly.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (29:48):
So exactly.

Marchelle (29:49):
Yeah,

Dr. Angela Zechmann (29:50):
Exactly. All right. So I wanna just summarize, cuz I, I gave you a lot of information today. So many of us have a relationship with processed artificial foods. Again, remember we don't have this similar relationship with broccoli and spinach it's with the processed artificial foods that meets three of the criteria for substance abuse. And so they are the researchers are, are calling this processed food addiction. The first criteria is tolerance, meaning that you need more and more of it to get the same sense of reward. The second is withdrawal symptoms. When you try to quit, the third is binging. So eating, eating a lot of it before you feel satisfied. The fourth is attempts to cut down or quit. That's what diets are. The fifth is noticing cravings and you know, serious desire for the food to the point where you're really working hard, trying to get at it.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (30:59):
And the last, the sixth one is interference with life activities. So I talked about two ways, the immediate interference in terms of you seeking out the food instead of sleeping or something or working or something like that. And then I also talked about the long term interference with life activities because we're not doing the things that we would ordinarily be doing. Like you know, we are we're feeling too heavy and our joints hurt. So we're not going out having, you know, fun activities with our family. We hold ourselves back. We, one woman said it was a very interesting thing. She said, she said as my life has as, as I have gotten bigger or my life has gotten smaller. And so what she means is yeah, what she means is she's not doing all of the things that she used to do because the because the obesity's interfering with her life, she's in pain and she's feeling shame.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (32:04):
And so, yeah, I thought that was a really, a really profound way of explaining how this happens and then the sad. Yeah. Yeah. And then the last the last criteria for for substance abuse is ongoing use despite negative consequences. So wanting to stop, not being able to stop, even if you're having, you know, some serious negative consequences from it. So I want you, I want everybody to know that we're here to help. Like, we don't want you to just go on another diet. We don't want you to join or join weight Watchers and not get the support that you need. So the best thing to do is to go ahead and sign up for the quit sugar kickstart challenge it's happening next week, and I'm gonna be giving away daily prizes and we're gonna get you kickstarted into a whole new, healthy life. So you just go to a journeybeyondweightloss.com/challenge to sign up. All right. So I think that's all for today. Thank you for listening. Everyone have a great week and we'll see you all next week. Take care byebye.

--- End of Transcription ---

Dr. Angela

PS: If you want help, I'll be holding a Sugar Buster's Kickstart Challenge on Facebook June 13th-19th. You can find out more and sign up right here: www.journeybeyondweightloss.com/challenge.

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