A Conversation with My Mentor, Dr. Allen Rader

Hi there!

Today we discuss how Dr. Rader was drawn into obesity medicine and what he has learned along the way.

Some of this weeks episode highlights are:
2:35 Looking at age for men, there is a correlation between the disease of obesity and premature cardiovascular disease.
20:07 Get a 1/4 teaspoon measure and take note of the little difference between normal and diabetes. The key is to know, based on your chemistry, what your probable level of carbohydrate intake is.
21:06 Low Carb and Keto are catch phrases. The better way to think is ""controlled carb"".

--- Full Raw Transcription of Podcast Below ---

Dr. Angela Zechmann (00:00):
You are listening to the, keep the weight off podcast with Dr. Angela episode number 21.

Introduction (00:07):
Welcome to The Keep The Weight Off podcast, where we bust all the dieting myths and discover not just how to lose weight, but more importantly, how to keep it off. We go way beyond the food and we use science and psychology to give you strategies that work. And now your host, Dr. Angela Zechmann.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (00:28):
Hey everyone! Welcome to the podcast this week. This is Dr. Angela Zechmann, and I'm here with Marchelle. Say hi Marchelle.

Marchelle (00:35):
Hi everybody.

New Speaker (00:37):
And I also have a very special guest and his name is Dr. Allen Rader. So say, hi, Allen.

Dr. Allen Rader (00:44):
Hello everyone.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (00:47):
I wanted to let you guys know why I asked Dr. Allen Rader to be on the podcast with us. And the reason is because he is my obesity medicine mentor. So he trained me in obesity medicine. This was like in, I don't know, 2007 or something. It was a long time ago. And I just asked him to come on because I he's been the foundation of my understanding of how to treat obesity. And what I want you to know about Alan is that he didn't start out in obesity medicine. He started out in family medicine and emergency medicine, and he spent like, I don't know what you say, 17 years or something doing that. And then what made you decide to go into obesity medicine

Dr. Allen Rader (01:40):
The main thing first off thanks for having me on. The main reason I got into obesity medicine, I very specifically remember I was working in emergency room and we had a guy in his late forties come in with a heart attack and died. And when I went out and told the wife and the two kids that dad wasn't coming home they acted terribly, like everyone would expect. And she looked at me and she said, doctor, he had a normal cholesterol. How did he have a heart attack? And that really struck me. And I got to thinking, how, how can we explain that? And I got to look him and his abdomen at that time look like my abdomen. And we were both overweight and I got to going back to the records and sure enough, looking at age ... a person's having a heart attack...

Dr. Allen Rader (02:39):
Ladies tended to have more strokes than heart attacks, but there was definitely a connection between weight and premature cardiovascular disease. So in 1997, I gave myself the challenge that I was going to one commit to getting more healthy and myself, and two try to figure out exactly why having the disease obesity is such a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. And I made it my life's mission to figure that out, which I think pretty clearly we have now and made it my life's mission to to help people lose weight and get more healthy. And that's how I entered the field of obesity medicine in 1997.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (03:26):
That is so cool. That's great. And so when you were practicing in Kentucky, because that's where you were born and raised, right? Like we can hear that accent. It's wonderful. Yeah.

Dr. Allen Rader (03:36):
It's usually the, ""I"" words that give me away.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (03:40):
So then you got board certified in obesity medicine,

Dr. Allen Rader (03:44):
Correct. I've found there was a national organization of clinicians that specifically were mostly full-time Obesity medicine doctors. So I attended my first obesity medicine conference in 1997 and have been ... moved to Idaho, January of 2002. I have now been practicing here until retirement. Just a couple of years ago for almost... I did obesity medicine for like 21 years.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (04:19):
And so you were the 245th person to get board certified in obesity medicine.

Dr. Allen Rader (04:27):
The first in Idaho. And at that time we had to take a written test, an oral test, an oral exam, and they actually sent a clinician that was board certified to the clinic and to look at your practice and now to get board certified they're over, I think there's 4,000 doctors now that are certified in obesity medicine, but now all you have to do is pass a test. So I actually think we had oral exams too. So it was a little bit tougher then, but the field of obesity medicine has come a long, long way.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (05:01):
You know, when I got board certified, I want to say that was, I got board certified in 2011 or 2012, something like that. And I didn't have to do an oral exam. I had to do the written exam and then I had to have a clinician come out and look at my practice too. So that was sort of terrifying because it's like, have somebody looking at all your charts going, oh my gosh. Yeah, I guess my point that I want our listeners to know is that if you live in the United States and you're seeing an obesity medicine specialist, you want to make sure that they're board certified because we have pretty rigorous training. We have to go through in order to get board certified. And so it's important that you don't just have somebody who, you know, they put a shingle up and say, I specialize in weight loss. You need somebody who knows what they're doing. Cause this isn't necessarily an easy to take care of. It's actually a very complicated disease to take care of. So now, and so then now you trained me and then you trained like 80 other people in obesity medicine.

Dr. Allen Rader (06:09):
Yeah. Once I, once I got into the field of obesity medicine, I realized just like a realized there was a need for for the doctors. There was also a need to help some clinicians learn how to start, get their doors open on that in the field. Cause I would see that I would see people at conferences three years in a row and they would, I'd ask them how their practices go in. And they say, well, we haven't opened our doors yet. So, so I realized there was a need there too. So for about 15 years, I actually had a side business of helping clinicians. Like you start learning about the field of obesity medicine and then how to teach it to the patients, how to use medications when indicated. And then there's something unique about the field of obesity. Medicine is the, the psychology of it all. And you know, there's not a lot of psychology in cardiac disease or hypertension, but there is a big part of psychology and losing weight and trying to keep it off long-term yeah,

Dr. Angela Zechmann (07:27):
There sure is. And that's exactly what we're working with. When we're working at, you know, when we're talking about keep the weight off, because it is so much psychology, so yeah. So you were awarded Bariatrician of the year in 2007 for all of your work. And then you were awarded a master fellow of the Obesity Medicine association in 2013. So like guys, this guy is revered in the field of obesity medicine. He gets up and he gives a talk and you know, there's probably 50 people standing around him after the talk, just asking him questions. Like he's just, he's kind of an idol. So I feel really super privileged that I actually got to spend a whole week training with him. And I have actually never met a more compassionate physician than you Dr. Rader.

Dr. Allen Rader (08:17):
Bless your heart, Angela.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (08:19):
Is, it is just, it's just amazing. So what I want our listeners to know about is, cause I always talk about Raders formula because you came up with an idea for helping people understand carbohydrates and insulin in a completely new way. And so I want you to explain to our audience how that came about. Like what's the story behind Raders Formula?

Dr. Allen Rader (08:48):
Well, it's it started actually kind of personal for me. You know, when I went to my doc my doc was not experienced and obesity medicine and and I told my doc that, you know, my body mass index, I think was 33 or something like that. And for those that may not be familiar, body mass index is just a way of combining weight and height to get a number. And he said, well, you know, Allen eat a hundred grams of protein and X, many grams of carbs and keep your calories at like 1500. And so I walked out of there and it occurred to me, I'm a doctor and I really don't have any idea what a hundred grams of protein looks like. And I sure as heck don't know what hundred and 50 grams of carbohydrates looks like on our shirt.

Dr. Allen Rader (09:42):
I don't even know what one gram of carbohydrates looks like, which I said, you know, if I don't understand it, then I've got a feeling that the majority of people don't understand it either. And so I said, there's, there's gotta be a way to, to teach nutrition in a first grade, first grade level. And so that we can, we can picture it and we can understand it. And I, I come as most doctors do, I come from a science back ground and I thought, well, if I've got a concentration and I've got a volume, then I can figure out how much solid particles or mass there is. And so I knew that average adult has about five liters, which is pretty close to five quarts of blood. I knew the normal blood sugar is a 60 to a hundred on the blood test results milligrams per deciliter for any scientist.

Dr. Allen Rader (10:52):
And I'm multiplied that out. And then I found out that a teaspoon of sugar is five grams of carbs. And then I thought, holy crap. In my entire bloodstream, I have somewhere between one half and one teaspoon of sugar, that's all... In a gallon and a fourth of blood! My blood sugar is somewhere between one half a teaspoon and a teaspoon. If it gets below a half a teaspoon, I get the signs and symptoms of low blood sugar. If it gets to a teaspoon and a fourth, and it stays above a teaspoon and a fourth, then I have the condition called diabetes. Blood sugar is one of the most highly regulated chemicals in the bloodstream. And I thought, geez, that's absolutely crazy. Blew me away. And so at the same time, this was about the, of 2001. I got to thinking, well, that really paints a picture for me of sugar in the blood.

Dr. Allen Rader (12:02):
But I wonder if I can use the same thing - calculation - and figuring out the teaspoons of sugar in everything we eat. And it was incredibly easy. And so I did it. And then I went in to see a patient was a guy that had been to see me two months and he hadn't lost any weight. And I told him, I said, Hey, let me share with you something. I just figured out. And so I showed it to him and the guy came back in a month and he lost 28 pounds. I didn't change his medicines. I didn't do anything different. I just taught him teaspoons of sugar. And I asked him, I said, holy crap, man, what did you do? And he said, well, Dr. Rader, I took that what you taught me? And I figured out I was doing like 28 teaspoons of sugar by lunchtime!

Dr. Angela Zechmann (12:54):
So common.

Dr. Allen Rader (12:56):
So he said, so, so I changed. And he was doing, oh, I said, what were you doing for breakfast? He said, well, I've been doing oatmeal because it supposedly helped my cholesterol level. And he said, so I quit eating oatmeal. I started eating bacon and eggs. And so I literally told him, I said, I'll pay for your cholesterol test. If you'll let me check your cholesterol level. And guess what happened to his cholesterol level in one month,

Dr. Angela Zechmann (13:20):
I know what happened to it. It went down.

Dr. Allen Rader (13:26):
100 Points, 100 points in one month, say that the, this is a little bit scientific, but people that take statins the medicines to lower the cholesterol level, they call a statins, inhibit an enzyme in the body called HMG-CoA Reductase. Hey, it's a little scientific but It turns out that when we eat carbs, it raises insulin level and insulin stimulates the same enzyme. That we take the cholesterol medicines to keep under control. So it's like, I thought, well, geez, if it helped this patient, I wonder if I shouldn't teach it to everybody. So as you know, and remember I'm a statistics, nerd and numbers nerd. And so I checked the next 500 patients. I didn't change the medicines, just changed how we taught them to think about carbs in terms of teaspoons of sugar. And it turned out in every weight category from over 400 pounds to under 150 pounds, weight loss improved a minimum of 15% in every weight category, just by teaching people teaspoons of sugar.

Dr. Allen Rader (14:56):
Hey, can I, can I tell you a quick patient story? We add a mother bring a teenage daughter in to the clinic because the daughter was was already, had gained enough weight. She felt into the obesity category. She had the disease obesity. So she attended our class and I got a phone call from the mom about a week later that that the daughter wasn't losing weight. And we're real busy that day. I didn't have a chance to call them. So I took the chart home and I called her from home and the daughter answered the phone and we talked for a little bit and we started asking her what she was eating. And I asked her go to the kitchen. And she said, why? I said really go to the kitchen. She said, okay. I said, get the sugar counter sprout and a measuring teaspoon.

Dr. Allen Rader (15:41):
And she said, really? I said, okay, get a plate. All right. And so she started telling me why she was eating. And I said, okay, now get out three teaspoons of sugar and put on the plate, get out five teaspoons of sugar, put on the plate, cut out seven teaspoons of sugar, put on the plate. And just then mom walked in and great big pile of sugar on the plate. Mom says, what are you doing? She said this is Dr. Rader on the phone, no wonder, I'm not losing any weight. Look how many teaspoons of sugar I'm doin! And so it's when, when we, when we can put it in visual terms, it's just from, from the person that's a scientist .. or if you can count to five, you can, you can, you can do the teaspoons of sugar things. So anyway, sorry, I got carried away.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (16:28):
No. I, I mean, I just love it. I love the light bulb that goes off for people when I teach them this.

Dr. Allen Rader (16:34):
Isn't it amazing when it is, it just hits on you go holy smokes. Yeah. That's that's one of the great things about it when you see it, it connected.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (16:46):
When you think about all of the stress on our pancreas and all the insulin that we have to produce, when we're eating, like I used to have a bagel every morning for breakfast and orange juice. And I thought I was eating really well. I thought I was doing the right thing. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's 24 teaspoons of sugar. First thing in the morning. No wonder, I feel so crappy.

Dr. Allen Rader (17:07):
And you know, Angela and in some people, depending on their chemistry, they might be okay. And, and I think that's the important, the reason that it's important to see a specialist in obesity medicine is to find out and see if you are insulin sensitive, if you are carb sensitive and, and you and I have the knowledge and the skills to help people figure that out, where many clinicians that don't work in this area. They may not recognize or understand that.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (17:50):
Yeah. Well, I, I think it's really fun because I've had patients who are also healthcare professionals and doctors in the, in the community. And when I teach them this stuff, they just like their jaws drop open. And they're like, everybody needs to hear this, you know? So it's just, I mean, we just don't learn this stuff in med school. We don't learn, we don't learn anything about obesity, medicine in Med School

Dr. Allen Rader (18:13):
So it's great. We've come a long way. Yeah, we have,

Dr. Angela Zechmann (18:18):
We have, did you, you were telling me that you met, did you meet Gary Todd?

Dr. Allen Rader (18:25):
Yeah, Gary Todd has been a speaker at our conference several times.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (18:31):
As a matter of fact, Alan, he just spoke at our last conference on video. It was a video conference and he he's great. And I actually did I did a podcast episode, a few episodes back. I can't remember exactly which podcast episode it is, but it it's called conference highlights the diabetes pandemic. And I talked about what Gary Todd taught us. So, oh yeah.

Dr. Allen Rader (18:57):
He interviewed me in his last book. I'm actually in his last book, I taught him how I calculated the teaspoons of sugar in the bloodstream and he actually quotes me in the book and he says, I can't believe, I never thought in all of my experience and researching, I never thought to do this simple calculation. He said, but he's, he said, Dr. Rader is exactly right. One half a teaspoon to one teaspoon of sugar in your bloodstream. And so anyways, that was kind of, that was kind of, kind of cool,

Dr. Angela Zechmann (19:37):
You know, that totally blew me away when you first taught me that I'm like, no, you're right. Blood doesn't taste sweet. Like, have you ever bit your lip or something? It doesn't, there's not a lot. I thought, you know, when I was guessing how much sugar, how many grams of sugar, how many teaspoons of sugar might be in the bloodstream? I was thinking, well, maybe 10 or 15, one half to one. And diabetes is one and one fourth. I mean, that is really, really tightly regulated.

Dr. Allen Rader (20:02):
If you think that's go, go take a, I encourage a podcast listener to take a just a fourth of a teaspoon of a measuring spoon and get a fourth of a teaspoon of sugar and look and see how little the differences between normal and diabetes is, is a fourth, fourth of a teaspoon of sugar. Now that doesn't mean we shouldn't ever eat carbs and you don't have to be afraid of carbs. You just, you gotta, you gotta know, based on your chemistry, what your probable level of carbohydrate intake is, and that's, that's where your and my knowledge and expertise we can help patients figure that out.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (20:48):
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So, and that is one thing people start, well, should I go keto? Should I do a keto diet? Then? I'm like, well, you know, you can, if you want to you don't have to, to lose weight. You don't have to do a keto diet.

Dr. Allen Rader (21:05):
I think low carb and keto are big catch phrases, but I think a better way to think of it is controlled carb and think of, and think of maybe keto as the bullseye in the middle of a target and then low carb is the next or to the next or two circles out. And then control carb is the next two circles on the on the bullseye. So a lot of people, I would even go to tell you, I don't think most people have to go all the way to keto, but there may be some. And that's where working with someone that is knowledgeable and experienced, they can help you and I could help them figure out if that's something they need to do. Right.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (22:00):
Exactly. Exactly. If you're looking for an obesity medicine specialist in your area, you can go to the American board of obesity medicine website. It's ABOM.ORG (and to find a specialist in your area: Https://abom.learningbuilder.com/public/membersearch). And we'll put this in the podcast notes so that you can find it. And then you just type in your zip code in your area, and then you'll be able to find somebody in your area. With 4,000 of us throughout the country, hopefully you'll be able to find somebody near you.

Dr. Allen Rader (22:32):
Hopefully it's somebody that's actually been practicing a while too, because between, between you and I and your podcast listeners now, okay. People that pass the obesity boards, they they've learned about the, the, the science and the medication and the biochemistry. But I think a big part in why I think the reason that your patients love you so much is that, that you've done this enough now that you're experienced in the psychology of losing weight and weight maintenance. And it's, it's, that's that I won't say it's the biggest piece of the puzzle, but it's got to be a big piece in for most people.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (23:31):
I think, I think it's huge. I think it's huge. So yeah, yeah. Understanding exactly what it takes to lose weight and keep it off is it's a process that people go through and it requires, it requires a lot more than just a diet. And so that's what, that's, what I'm really wanting to help people understand is it just takes so much more than a diet to do this correctly. So, and it's a, it's a magnificent process to go through too, as you get healthier, it is so much fun. Don't you have? I mean, how can you have fun in retirement, right. Do you ever miss those days, do you ever miss those days when you would walk in and you would teach people something and they'd come back a month later and they were totally different people?

Dr. Allen Rader (24:15):
That's, that's, that's what, that's what I, that's what I miss the most, but you know, it's it's still we had an experience recently. I just telling you before we started my wife and I skied 43 days this year, and we did over 800 miles on skis and over 750,000 vertical feet. And we were at our local ski shop and a young lady walked up to me and I thought I recognized her, but I wasn't sure. And she had a beautiful husband and two beautiful young kids, and she started with us in her early twenties. And, and she was you know, quite... her body mass index put her in the class that well into the class three obesity range. And over the next two years, she lost my recollection is 70 to 80 pounds. And now some 15 to 17 years later, you know, she's still in the same weight range that she was when we helped her lose it the first time. So she's done great. Long-Term and she just wanted to say how much she appreciated what I did for her and her family. And we were just we were in tears, standing around and talking with each other. It was, it was great.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (25:45):
Yeah. I mean weight loss changes people for life. It just does, you know, everything changes. So that's great. Awesome. Well, Marchelle, this is your opportunity. Do you have any questions for Dr. Rader?

Marchelle (26:01):
Ny head is just kind of spinning right now. It was so fortunate to be part of this, but it seemed a little surreal. Yeah, I hear it. I'm trying to like think back of where I was when I first came into the clinic, when I first got the job and it's hard because I'm not the same person that I used to be, but, you know, going into it, I was of the thought, you know, eat less, exercise more, count calories, the less you eat the less you weigh. And I didn't realize like how messed up I was. I learned so much. I just built. I'm so glad that you guys are doing this. And I know that it helps so many people because I see it every day, including myself. And I'm just not, yeah. I mean, it's completely changed my life. Yeah. And I love that I can just target the sugar art and not have like so much other thinking to do, because really that's what I do now is I just use Raiders formula, if thank you for making that it's making my life a lot more simple. And and then that way, you know, I just, that's the first thing that I learned that I sort of had control over what I was doing. And then of course there's like a million other things, you know, that I've learned. But yeah. I just thank you so much.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (27:22):
Yeah. When you think about it Allen, think about all the people that you've trained and all the patients that they've taught this to, and then they, they, the patients teach their families and I mean, you probably affected millions of people by now.

Dr. Allen Rader (27:37):
It's been a, it's been a, it's been an honor. It's been honor of a lifetime. I'm, I'm, I'm proud to say our clinics here in Idaho now. I always wanted to remember how McDonald's used to say, you know, 5 million served five, 10 billion. I actually tracked pounds lost and we're up over 650,000 pounds lost now. And I figure if I multiply that by four, that means we're at 2.4 quarter pound quarter pounds lost - not quarter pounders! but quarter pounds lost. So we'll never catch up with McDonald's, but we're trying,

Marchelle (28:25):
Well, maybe not 60 more pounds because that's me

Dr. Allen Rader (28:30):
All right! That's 240 quarter pounders. Yay! Well, congratulations. Yeah, it is rewarding when you see the difference and especially especially young people. I mean, I, I remember awesome Austin.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (28:50):
I actually met awesome Austin!

Dr. Allen Rader (28:52):
Awesome Austin lost a hundred pounds in one year. He ended up losing 150 pounds. He was 17 years old when he started it. I share this story because I've had his permission, but to, he told me, he said he went in to get a a job interview. Apparently the local TV did a little story on, on him personally and his weight loss. And he went in for a job interview and he, the, his application was on the desk and he went into the boss and the boss said aren't you, that guy that lost? And he said, yes, sir, that's me. I stood up and shook out, stuck out his hand. And he said, you're hired! He hadn't read my application yet. He just said, so Austin called me to tell me that that, that happened. And that was, that was very cool.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (29:51):
Yes. The week that I was with you, Allen, he was at his hundred pound mark. No, no, I'm not kidding. Or maybe, maybe it was, I I'm pretty sure it was a hundred because I remember you making like a barbell or something

Dr. Allen Rader (30:09):
Oh fantastic. Yeah.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (30:11):
That was the week I was with you in 2007.

Dr. Allen Rader (30:14):
Yeah, no, that's fantastic. I didn't remember that Angela. We took a.. Okay. Don't laugh, but we took two containers and put on the end and we used a, a carton tube from Christmas wrapping paper and we wrapped it up to make it look like a barbell. And we put 50 on each end and my nurse manager and I carried it out and acted like it was real heavy and set it down. He picked it up and we'd put him a little cash in each end, which we did a lot of times where their patients, when they hit a big milestone like that go get some new clothes or something. So yeah. I kept in touch with him for a long time as a great, great, a great kid.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (31:01):
Yeah. See, Marchelle. What I mean about, about one of the most compassionate physicians I've ever worked with was like, I was just like so impressed. So yeah.

Marchelle (31:10):
My heart is so warm right now, listening to them really appreciate that. You and Dr. Zach when, I mean, you're the same way and making changes. I don't know that the obesity medicine doctors that I have met are way more compassionate because a lot of this is counseling. A lot of it is emotional. So the connection that you have with your provider is very special. So I love that story. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (31:37):
Awesome. Well, Alan, is there anything else that you wanted to say that I forgot to ask you about?

Dr. Allen Rader (31:43):
No, except to say that you know all of us have our struggles. I just got back from .. we did a 6,000 mile RV trip and just took another week's vacation on too far after that. And, you know I get on the scale every day to monitor my disease. It's just like diabetic and checking his blood sugar. And as, as you and I talked about before, you know, the, the science hasn't told us when we're losing weight, whether we should get on the scale or not, I think it depends on how each person responds and, and what they, and what they say to themselves. But we know in life long way, maintenance, science, strongly supports getting on that scale every morning. And and that just reminds me, Allen Rader, you have the disease called obesity and where, where is your disease today and what do you need to do?

Dr. Allen Rader (32:53):
And so I think about it, I think about it at least once every day. And that's that's that's important to me and I think it's important, but it also, we have to remember, we used to have a poster that we hung over the scale that says that the number on the scale just tells you the gravitational effected mass of your body. It doesn't tell you anything about who you are and how you're loved as a person, but it is a measure of your disease. And I don't have to be afraid of it. You know, sometimes I don't, I may not like what it tells me. It's telling me, Hey, Allen, you need to get your focus back for a few days. And so we all have slips, but the secret is don't let us slip become a total give up and say there's nothing that you can do.

Dr. Allen Rader (33:46):
And Angela, I've known you for a long time. Then I got to believe as much as anybody that I've worked with in my entire career. If there's one person that I would feel very comfortable and going into your office and say, Hey, guess what, doc, I I fell off, then I know your heart. And I know that you would be the one that says, well, okay, let's see what we can do to get back on that wagon again. That's the most important thing I think I w I would like to share is just, don't, don't be afraid to say my disease got out of control. So the do our choices affect our disease. Sure. Our choices affect our disease, but, you know, I'll bet every person that struggles with weight that know someone that eats more than them exercises less than them. And they're skinnier than crap. It's no dang fair. I hate that, but because I got friends like that too, but, but I know I can't, I can't do that. So I it's been a, it's been a pleasure and an honor, and a thank you for inviting me to be here with you!

Dr. Angela Zechmann (34:54):
Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast. And I know our listeners are just going to, I'm just going to be absolutely thrilled that you took the time to do this. Thank you so much, Allen. You're welcome.

Marchelle (35:05):
And thank you so much and thank you for everything you've done for me.

Dr. Allen Rader (35:09):
Oh, you're welcome. Marchelle. And nice getting to meet and talk with you.

Dr. Angela Zechmann (35:14):
All right! Take care of everybody and we will see you again next week. Bye now,

Closing (35:19):
Hey, if you really want to lose weight and keep it off for good, your next step is to sign up for Dr. Angela's free weight loss course, where you're going to learn everything you need to get started on your weight loss journey, the right way, just head over to JourneyBeyondWeightLoss.com/freecourse to sign up. Also, it would be awesome if you could take a few moments and write a review on iTunes. Thanks. And we'll see you in Journey Beyond Weight Loss.

- Dr. Angela

This episode was produced and marketed by the Get Known Podcast Service: getknownstrategy.com/podcast-service